This is a rather lengthy page, and should be read it in it's entirety...

The person involved in this situation has filed a bogus abuse report regarding this page.  I have found that I am NOT in violation of ANY terms of my service provider.  This is a privately owned website, and unless I commit any illegal acts, I may post whatever I wish on this site.  NO portion of this website will be altered in ANY way in light of the abuse report.

On February 29, 2000 I discovered that Tucker's first memorial had been removed from another memorial site. This was done without request from either Todd or myself. The owner and I had a "falling out" of sorts last summer. This was due to different beliefs on how ectopics are resolved and how my new miracle Cooper was (to be) created. The owner has not had an ectopic, nor does she have fertility problems. She has lost 4 precious children. Thankfully, I saved the html code on my computer and can view it anytime I wish.

It is true that a privately owned website is just that-owned by a private individual. However, when you open your site to the general public, and especially when offering memorials for the loss of a child, you take on a greater responsibility. I believe that our lost children are not up for debate, and their memorials are precious and should be permanent. Tucker's first memorial was the thing that kept me going after his loss. I had a place to go and "visit" him. The community of Sad Mommies is a close-knit group. We all should be able to lean on each other, no matter what our religious or moral beliefs are. We all share one thing-the loss of a child.

To date, and after reading the previous page on this matter, I have received 109 e-mails of support! Your support and words of comfort have helped to keep my heart going in attempting to ensure that this never happens to anyone ever again! I am fighting for Tucker's memory, and NOT out of any bitterness harbored towards the facilitator of this situation.

Just a warning to sad parents-this site may discriminate based on the views of a parent when keeping memorials on the site. WHAT CAN YOU DO? I would never ask others to have their memorials removed from this site. That would defeat my intent in this matter-keeping memorials permanent! What I am asking is that if you own a website (national or private) that you do not link to this site! How horrible to send a grieving parent to this site, and then learn that the same thing happened to them! While the name of the site is not listed here, I will be more than happy to give you the site name and address at your request.

*You will notice that certain sentences have been highlighted where I express my feelings on same. The e-mails are presented in their entirety, so that "both sides of the story" are given. The return codes are saved on my computer, so that there will be no doubt as to whether these e-mails are genuine.

The first e-mail sent regarding the removal of Tucker's memorial:

Susan,

While I am thankful that (sic) has entered this world happy and healthy, I am shocked and saddened that you have removed Tucker's memorial from (sic). I find this a bitter and distasteful act on your part, and I will be writing to national sites to inform them that I am not the first woman to have her child's memorial removed from (sic) due to personal differences. The pregnancy loss community is close-knit and should not be influenced by personal beliefs. The one bond that we all have is the loss of a child. While your work is indeed comforting, you have broken the one element that is paramount to those who create a memorial-trust.

May God watch over you and guide you in the future,

Krista

First reply:

I had removed it only recently because I felt you would be insulted if I left it on the site, since you were mad at me. That is why I removed it and the only reason why.

Susan

My reply:

Susan,

I did not, in any way, lead you to believe that I wanted Tucker's memorial removed from the site. Tucker's loss has nothing to do with our personal differences, and the link to his memorial on your site is still located on my site. I don't feel that your removing it had anything to do with what you thought I wanted. Our falling out happened many months ago, and to remove it now was pointless.

I still consider our falling out to be pointless, also. I never had any shadows about how we believed different things. I did consider you a friend, and was hurt when you decided that our friendship was not worth any sort of conflict. It WAS you who decided that I was not worthy of your friendship and refused my mail.

Revenge has nothing to do with my anger about this situation. I do not intend to defame the (sic) site, as it has many comforting qualities and has helped many parents with their grief. My only intent is to force you to think about what pain you can cause by removing a memorial (for any reason, other than a parent's request). If this means writing to those who list us both, and being 100% honest about the memorial's absence, then I will take the time and effort to do it. I have not, at any time, defamed your site or the reasoning behind it's creation. I have questioned some of your practices, not beliefs, and I feel this questioning is now justified.

I do not intend to continue this line of conversation. I just want you to sit back and really think about what you have done. You have hurt Todd and I beyond repair.

God bless you and your family,

Krista

Second reply:

> to national sites to inform them that I am not the first >woman to have her > child's memorial removed from (sic) due to personal >differences. The

What other woman's memorial was removed? As I do not recall any other person's memorial removed. I know one woman asked to be taken off the (sic) list becuase she believed in abortion and was offended that I posted an article about abortion in China. I removed her from the list and never heard from her again. I respected her wishes and her belief and we went our own separate ways. (*please see e-mail regarding this section below)

I find your desire to attack me most inappropriate and heartless. I have not gone out to attack you for your beliefs or site. I only removed your memorial page because I assumed you wanted it removed since you were angry at me. If you wish to attack me concerning matters you do not know anything about, please only state that it concerns you alone, as that is the case and that you harbour revenge in your heart and wish to take it out on me. For that would be the truth. That is really sad, Krista that you have resorted to revenge. I will defend my online position if that is necessary but I'm sure most people will understand when I explain to them that you are just trying to hurt me because you are mad at me.

> removed from the site. Tucker's loss has nothing to do >with our personal > differences, and the link to his memorial on your site is still

That is what I thought for a long time but then I kept thinking you'd be insulted if I kept it up there becuase you hate me and would not want your baby on my site. So I finally removed it on Friday.

> site. I don't feel that your removing it had anything to do

It had everything to do with our disagreement. I have no reason to lie to you about it and I am telling you why I removed it. Simply because I assumed you would not want it there. If the situation was reversed, I would want it removed because the conflict between us has become so great that it would only bother me.

> thought I wanted. Our falling out happened many months >ago, and to remove it > now was pointless.

Actually I was surprised you even visited the site anymore. I was shocked you even wrote to me, as I assumed you had thought I had taken it down a long time ago. But I only took it down last week as I was revamping the site.

Susan has repeatedly said that she removed Tucker's memorial while revamping the entire site. However, she failed to remove his u/s picture (from the u/s gallery) and a certificate made from his memorial by an outside source (shown as an example). If Susan was revamping her site, why were these items left on the site? Did she think that I would only want his memorial removed from her site? I think not. The u/s and the certificate were removed from her site on March 9th, three days after this was noted on this page.

> shadows about how we believed different things. I did >consider you a friend, > and was hurt when you decided that our friendship was not

It goes both ways Krista. Putting the entire blame on me is false and you know that. It takes two people to disagree and argue and that is what you have done by threatening revenge upon me. How truly cold and obviously meant to harm. Something which you have thought about and stated in attempt to harm me. And forget it...I'm not reading the rest of this message anymore. Whatever else you said, please keep it to yourself. Please leave me alone.

E-mails received from anonymous source, which I think shows that Susan has taken this from a memorial issue to a popularity contest. Once again, very sad that it has come to this. I apologize to those of you who may lament any closing of (sic). That is NOT my intention, nor has it been at any time. Having lost a child, I hope you understand why I had to do this. I am very concerned that Susan still insists that I have been lying about her. It is a FACT that Tucker's memorial was removed, and any other women who have requested that their services be removed from (sic) have done so at their own accord. As soon as I have permission, I will be adding several e-mails from one such woman, who was also demeaned regarding her pregnancy loss. As you will see, I had nothing to do with her decision.

(sic) News Report

March 1, 2000

A Word from the (sic) Webmaster

Recently there has been someone spreading accusations and false judgements about me to other sad parents. I do not believe in pointing out those who have done wrong, so I will not list her name here.

Nonetheless, the cruel email I have received of late has clearly discouraged me. I have given years to this site and also all of my free time in making the bunny memorials. I am not going to debate whether or not to continue this work, for my intentions are never to hurt anyone and if someone is spreading lies about my work, that is clearly disheartening.

 I am saddened by this immensely and do not know if my site is worth the pain and effort if I am going to be attacked in such a way. Thus I am temporarily going to take time off to debate about the site. Those who gave me donations for the domain name...I will return if I decide to close the site down.

I have placed a similiar note on the website so that visitors will be aware of this situation. Thank you for listening.

Susan

The note on Susan's website claims that she fears that I will write to women on that site regarding this matter. At NO time, have I sent e-mails regarding this matter to women that I do not have a personal relationship with. Only Susan has exhibitied this, by writing to women who have signed my dreambook, and most recently by SPAMMING and inviting same to visit her website-INCLUDING MY MOTHER! SEE RELATED PAGE-Ectopic Pregnancy and Religious Extremists

Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:21 AM

(sic) News Update

March 2, 2000

A Word from the (sic) Master

I wanted to thank everyone for their outpouring of support concerning this grave matter. I received a LOT of support mail and do realize how important the site is to many sad moms. Due to this recent attack upon me, I was kicked out of a support list and declined on another.

The support group that Susan is speaking of revoked her membership when it was discovered that had joined under an alias name. This support group is the same group that formed in desperation after Susan closed her first support list without warning and without suggesting another group for the women to join.

I felt that the loss community had turned against me due to these accusations but apparently only a few are out to harm me; those who are friends of the accuser.

Many of you asked who the person was but I do not like to make other people look bad so have refrained from giving the name out. Only those who are in association with this person and support her, probably know of whom I am talking about. To me, their wrongdoing is something they must face in the mirror everyday, not to mention God. I know I am not perfect myself and have been very frustrated over this event. I have apologized to those I was rude to in my anger over this, for I feel that good will conquer evil in the end.

I also must remind myself that sometimes people try to hurt other people to make themselves feel better. The only thing I can do at this point is pray.

Pray that I don't become bitter over this towards people and lose faith in human nature and pray that the other person will realize what they have done.

Now I don't mean to write a long letter here. I just wanted to let everyone know that I am taking your MANY letters into consideration as I try to figure out what to do. My husband said to walk away and calm down first before making any rash decisions and though it is hard, I believe he is right. Many of you said the same thing. I have dedicated years to the site, as well as numerous hours to help other women who have suffered so much. I feel this whole situation is inappropriate to the loss community in the first place and wish it never became public. Those who have lost a baby deserve kindness, compassion and thoughtfulness. If there is a personal disagreement then the two should go their own separate ways and leave each other in peace.......silently.

For bitterness does not fit well with grief.

Thank you for listening everyone. I don't mean to bother you with my trivial problems but I felt you should know what was happening, as many of you have memorials already on the site and you deserve to be informed of these matters.

Sincerely,

Susan

I agree that bitterness does not sit well with grief. My main purpose in relating this story, is to show that bitterness was the sole reason for removing Tucker's memorial and for Susan's e-mails to women experiencing a pregnancy loss (see Ectopic Pregnancy and Religious Extremists). I welcome Susan to release my name and e-mail address. Any party that contacts me regarding this matter will be directed to this webpage, so that they may have the situation in it's entirity.

E-mails regadring the "abortion" issue. (sic)'s memorial was removed from the site, also without her request. Funnily enough, the site now makes an open offer to create memorials for women who have been through elective abortion.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF (sic) I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE! She talks about me believeing in abortion because I had one, knowing full well that I regret it horribly and did it because I was pushed and felt I had no other alternative. This single-handedly proves that she did what she did because she held it against me, which she repeatedly assured me that she did not, and clearly made the judgment that (sic) did not deserve a memorial. This woman is the biggest hypocrite and liar I have ever had the misfortune to have contact with under the guise of a good Christian. People like her are why religion has such a bad stigma attached to it these days, and she makes me sick to my stomach.

Whatever you can do, Krista, I am behind you 200%. Not only because you are my friend, but because your stand is absolutely correct. Please keep me updated....

(sic)

*hugs*

E-mail that I feel should be posted here. Lisa gave permission for it's placement on this page.

My Dear Friend Krista,

If you were the only one that Susan seemed offended by or shut out, then maybe I would be more open-minded. But I brought some things to her attention that I thought were inappropriate and was immediately shut out. She didn't want ANY discussion.......And I too felt I was VERY good friends with her. She did help me so much after I lost my son, that's how I met you and Kelly. Susan wanted me to be in charge of contacting the postmaster about getting a stamp made for infant loss awareness, she had me as the original lead person for the ribbons, I was the department head and have printouts to verify it. And we half joked/half serious said that if we were able to get Oprah's attention, she wanted me to be a spokesperson for (sic) as I seemed very open and not shy. I couldn't tell you exactly what severed my ties with Susan, I cried about our quick falling out because there was no way back in. And while I could accept going our different ways, traveling different paths, it hurt me that she and I couldn't seem to be friends. I do take responsibility for anything I said or did that hurt her, but I'm not 100% clear what it was I did. If we weren't all on different pages of this issue, we wouldn't get anywhere. But yes, you said it right, the one common thing in all our lives is we have all suffered a loss. The comparisons should end. We lost a baby/babies. And from there we should each go where we need to draw comfort and support. Not compare how much worse this is from that and who should do what. We need to embrace our differences and make the world a better place.

So, Krista, I am behind you 100% in promoting Infant Loss Awareness and support for all. I am not as open to talk about future (sic) Babies because I don't know where my husband and I are......but I will ALWAYS listen with open ears, closed mouth.

Your friend,

Lisa

Sadly, the memorial issue escalated into another situation which is detailed in Ectopic Pregnancy and Religious Extremists.